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User talk:Michael.j.lacey
Welcome Hi, welcome to Warhammer 40k! Thanks for your edit to the User:Michael.j.lacey page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Montonius (Talk) 12:51, August 10, 2011 Blood Angels Hi Michael, We have a major problem with vandalism on high-popularity pages like the Blood Angels. If you wish to make an edit to that kind of page, please preview what your intended changes will be with me first and I will unlock the article for you. When you are done, tell me and I will relock it. I apologise for the cumbersome nature of this process, but after having to spend a great deal of time repairing the same pages over and over, it has become necessary. Thanks. Montonius 04:10, August 11, 2011 (UTC) Ok, thanks Mont 09:18, August 11, 2011 (UTC) Stubs Hi Michael, Please do not create empty stub pages. We use the red links to determine which pages need a full page created. If you fill in the links with empty pages, people will expect there to be a full page there and we will not know what needs to created and what already has a full page. Only create a page that you intend to complete. Thanks. Montonius 08:53, September 8, 2011 (UTC) Ah my apology. Page restored. Montonius 08:54, September 8, 2011 (UTC) No worries :) Michael.j.lacey 08:56, September 8, 2011 (UTC) I'm sorry Michael I don't understand your question. Your article needed a lot of editing to conform to Wiki quality and formatting standards and to be more easily understood by someone with no knowledge of the subject. That's what I edited for. Montonius 18:14, September 8, 2011 (UTC) Well, you did delete the page I was working on, then reinstated it, then - whilst I was working on the page's content - added to the template page I created (with good stuff, nice picture, good intro ) but I had to keep stopping and restarting. Then, when I was done and asked for a review - instead of reviewing the page and suggesting changes (or pointing me to a style guide) you re-wrote it; mostly using text taken from the lexicanum. If you change someone's article like that you pretty much own it, there's no incentive for me to add to it now that it's in your personal writing style etc. This isn't what I think of as collaboration. It's not that I don't think there should by standards, style guides etc. and I don't think they should apply to everyone except me. I'm happy to learn and stick to the standards - I just don't learn them if you ''do the rewrite. I did learn from the intro paragraph you did, I copied link styles etc. I hope this doesn't get me booted and banned, I enjoyed researching and writing it and I'd like to carry on doing it. Michael.j.lacey 18:58, September 8, 2011 (UTC) Michael, you have done nothing wrong. Bans are only for flagrant disregard of wiki standards after repeated warnings or for harassment on Talk Pages. I am sorry that I interrupted your work, I will be more careful to hold my review until you are complete in the future. We just get a lot of vandalism and poorly made articles that people just add to the wiki with no content and I mistook your work for one of these at first, thinking you would not add any further content. But the wiki is not about learning to write better, it is about providing information to people as clearly and in as much detail as possible. Nothing more, nothing less. I have a responsibility to review every article on this wiki to make sure it is held to the same high standard of quality and the same format for all our users. As I am the only Administrator, the wiki has huge areas that need to be filled in and my time is limited, I move swiftly to bring every article immediately up to our standard of quality. However, this does not mean you cannot contribute fully. You are more than welcome to check out on our main page the Important Links section which will give you a multitude of pointers on how to write a high-quality wiki article. Also look at our featured articles in the Community section to see the style and format that are expected. You can also ask me how or why I do anything when editing. Try to learn from the edits I make how to produce a better article in your own writing style. But it is basic policy on this wiki that every page will be reviewed and given a final edit by an Administrator -- that is, in fact, the promise that sets us apart from other wikis like the Lexicanum and guarantees the higher level of quality than is standard for a fan-made wiki. Also, you are more than welcome to create as many pages as you want; your first page was actually quite good and survived more or less intact in the final product. View your role as providing the basic research and a first draft, and eventually, as you gain experience, you will need far less editing and more of your own voice will survive the final review. Everyone needs an editor, including me. Editors often have to go back over my work to fix typos, facts and spelling, so this is a process in which everyone gets edited at some point. Finally, you can feel free to ask me for anything you want to know to produce a better article, but in this case, wiki writing is generally very much a learning by doing experience, and one that can take some time to master. I also do hold editors to a very stringent standard, and I make no bones about that. However, if you are willing to be patient and invest time here, I think you can become a very valuable contributor, and Lord knows, we need as many of them as we can get. Montonius 20:53, September 8, 2011 (UTC) Hi there, Thanks for taking the time to answer me so thoroughly and I'm sorry that it's taken me so long to reply to you. I've been out of the country and without internet access. Maybe I didn't express myself well; my two main points were #"I'm happy to learn and stick to the standards - I just don't learn them easily if 'you 'do the rewrite." In other words I'm happy to be held to a high standard - let me know what's wrong and I'll correct it. '(Now, bear with me for a minute....)' #Part of (All of?) the incentive to contribute to a Wiki is that there is something of yours, that you created which others find valuable -- so you've made a contribution. From the care, dedication and (sheer hard work) you've put into this site I know that you understand this; your pride in this wiki is obvious and well deserved. However, may I respectfully point out that if you edit articles to that extent that it turns it into 'your '''contribution and not mine; it takes away a lot of the pleasure of contributing. Thanks again for taking the time to answer me so thoroughly and I will be taking your advice by reading the Important Links section and the featured articles in the Community section. Great new look by the way. Michael.j.lacey 23:14, October 26, 2011 (UTC) Editing Welcome back, Michael, I'm glad you decided to rejoin us. I completely understand your point of view, I simply disagree with it for all of the reasons I stated above. I will be editing all pages added to the wiki, to the full extent that they require such editing, if they require it in my judgment. That has been standard wiki policy since the wiki was refounded in 2010 and it will not be changing. This has not been a problem for any of our other editors, and in fact many seem to have learned a great deal from the process. As always, I am happy to explain to you why I have changed anything you have written and how you can improve anything you write. Additionally, creating a page and doing the first draft and the research required is an immensely valuable contribution to the wiki, even if your draft undergoes a rewrite. As you get more experience, as I stated above, you will need less and less editing. If you still find that system not to your liking, I would suggest trying edits at the Lexicanum, the larger Warhammer 40k Wiki, which follows very different policies than us and which might be an environment more in line with your own thinking. They, however, are even more stringent about what you can and cannot put into an article and require footnoting, which is quite onerous and unnecessary in my view for an entertainment wiki. Whatever you decide, thanks for raising your concerns and making your view understood for the administrators so clearly, and I'm glad you're back with us. Montonius 03:34, October 27, 2011 (UTC) Thanks for taking the time to reply Montonius, the courtesy is appreciated. All the best with the wiki, I know you'll continue to do a great job. 17:59, October 27, 2011 (UTC)